Sunday, November 18, 2007

Agility Equipment: NADAC vs the Universe

SUMMARY: If you go to a NADAC agility trial to practice agility, what are you really practicing? (updated Nov 19, 9 a.m.)


NADACEveryone else1
Hoops yes no
Table no yes2
Spread jumps (doubles, triples) no yes
Chute no yes
Broad jump no yes
Teeter no yes
A-frame Low, no slats, padded High, slats4, unpadded
Dogwalk No slats Slats4
Tire Special 2-part displaceable doohickey Tire
Single jumps Yes; do they still allow wings? Winged or nonwinged
Weaves Yes, unstaked5 Yes, staked5
Tunnel yes yes

1USDAA, CPE, ASCA, FCI, AAC, AKC, CKC, TDAA3, probably others but I didn't check. Individual specs may vary, such as the length of the chute (collapsed tunnel) or of the contact zone.
2Table used sparingly in many org's.
3No triple or broad jump in teacup (TDAA) agility
4Slats are optional in several org's.
5 Just recently heard from someone else that a NADAC judge said that weaves are supposed to be UNstaked because the dog is supposed to be "weaving", not "pushing through the poles". I don't know whether this is a NADAC thing or just that one NADAC judge. Staking isn't actually called out in most rules one way or another. Usually says "rigid" poles; usually, rigidity is achieved by staking.

29 comments:

  1. No broad jump in NADAC. Interesting to see the side by side comparisons.

    Heather and All
    www.BrisbeeTheWhite.com

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  2. And now rumor has it that NADAC is phasing out all jumps in favor of hoops. So, can you still call it dog agility?

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  3. Thanks for broad jump info; since NADAC's pages seem never to be up to date (REALLY?!?!? NADAC?!?!?), I can't rely on them for correct info and, as usual for NADAC rules, have to rely on word of mouth.

    Jumps vs hoops: I'd scoff at the concept that they'd actually do that, except--well--this is NADAC. We've been joking about it for years; see our April Fools newsletter from 2006 (before they actually did away with the teeter).

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  4. You guys are joking right? On the one hand it seems preposterous but on the other hand we are talking NADAC here. Just when I was thinking I was going to be doing more NADAC.

    The contacts aren't necessarily 'padded' (do you mean the rubberized surface?) unless they've changed the rules since a couple of weeks ago. The contacts can be regular paint/sand. I will say this for NADAC though, that rubber surface is really nice if you're lucky enough to find a club using it.

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  5. Rubberized, OK, yes. When I was browsing some of the other org's equipment specs, I saw a note about optional padding/rubberizing somewhere else, don't remember where.

    My impression was that you weren't allowed to use the old (unpadded) style contacts, but, like everything else about NADAC rules, it's a bit of a mystery to me.

    -ellen

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  6. I think I've got to the bottom of the hoop rumor thing. I went over to the NADAC discussion group (and lived to tell the tale) and though I didn't have time to go through the 9 million posts I did click on a few from Sharon herself and according to her the hoops will be added to Regular, Chances, Touch & Go and Weavers. There will not be hoops in Jumpers. Regular, Chances and Jumpers will always have jumps. Touch & Go and Weavers will still have tunnels. Phew, does your head hurt yet?

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  7. OK, here's my next question; maybe you saw something while you were browsing. How does one fault a hoop?

    -ellen

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  8. I'm afraid I don't know anything about Hoopers and the discussion I found over there had to do with adding Hoopers to the Versatility Natch. All I could glean was that the class had gone through 3 'phases' and was now entering a final phase and that people seemed to have mixed feelings about the class. I didn't click on a whole lot of posts, all I wanted to know was if the jumps were really going away.

    I've never seen Hoopers being run and I'm not even 100% on what a hoop obstacle looks like. I suppose you could 'fault' it by running past it then going back to take it and you'd be over time. Or an off course if you never went back to take it. Maybe knocking it over is a fault? I dunno. I can't see myself ever entering that class so I never thought about it but it's and interesting question.

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  9. No faults on hoops, but you would lose time for a run by. (However, you can't fault a tunnel either.)

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  10. Weaves are supposed to be unstaked if they are a "heavy" set. But she indicated that everything she had seen out here was "light".

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  11. Oh, and I forgot ... you can add Gates to the NADAC equipment list. (From Gaters, their new class.)

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  12. I googled displaceable tires and found this page. I can add a few corrections.

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  13. Light weight weave poles may be staked. In SoCal even the heavy poles are staked in the front and back.

    DOCNA allows the rubber matted and/or no-slat A-Frames. Most SoCal NADAC trials use the rubber matting as well as Elk Grove trials, and the many Fun-Raisers held in California and elsewhere.

    I think everyone will agree, NADAC is quite different from AKC, USDAA, CPE, etc. The premium is on speed and flow. Distance handling is usually required.

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  14. Ron! Good to hear from you! Thanks for the updates.

    -ellen

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  15. Since NADAC is less expensive that AKC, and you get a bazillion runs of idiocy per day, it's pretty handy for practicing your start line stay. I call my run if my dog breaks his start line. In NADAC, I get several more tries for my dog to be successful at the line.

    But I hate the dumbed down equipment selection. Hey, how about training dogs on correct execution as opposed to making everyone run with training wheels?

    We don't have rubberized contacts, which I do like, up where I live. In the rain, NADAC contact obstacles are very slippery and unsafe. So perhaps we need to simply not offer those at our local trials, or may-be NADAC will simply pull contacts from their equipment selection as well. After hoopers, nothing would surprise me.

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  16. We wondered what the rubberized contacts were like in the rain. It might depend on the specific material used. I'll mention that to our equipment folks who are going to evaluate the rubberization. Do you happen to know what kind of material was used on specific contacts that you know aare slippery when wet?

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  17. I hear gate class starts next year (2010) If you don't have a BC or sheltie, you can forget nadac, it's impossible for an average dog to make their Elite times. Thanks Sharon Nelson.

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  18. Even back when I was doing it, it was tough to make Elite times. With a fast dog, some of the courses were a blast to run. With a slow dog, forget it. (And I had a little of each.)

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  19. I saw a lab go completely clean at a pretty good clip on an Elite weavers couse about a month ago, no double entries into weaves, not a bobble, and he was 3 seconds over time. It was at that time, my friend said forget NADAC. Who needs the frustration.

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  20. Nadac is run by one person so she can change the rules every year if she wants, which she does. More changes next year with gates and 5 second Q's and who knows what else. Ridiculous.

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  21. Yes-Sharon Nelson is Ruining nadac and she's stubborn and will not listen to anyone else-her little yahoo group is a joke, if you disagree with her, she doesn't post your comment. Just WOW.

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  22. You folks don't know the half of it! I can't go into detail because that would identify me, but at Champs she gives extra points to dogs who approach the ring with enthusiasm. Dogs that approach with control and manners get nothing. One other interesting and noteworthy item is that no one gets to see the financials! There are a lot of people (several hundreds that have said it to me) that she's crazy and needs to step down before she totally destroys a great organization.

    You didn't hear this from me. :)

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  23. Funny that, because you're in trouble if your dog *leaves* the ring with enthusiasm, instead must have control and manners. Doh!

    NADAC definitely out emotions in people one way or another, that's for sure.

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  24. And another update almost 3 years after the original post: Most organizations are now going to rubberized contacts and there's considerable push for a tire that's displaceable in one form or another, but preferably that doesn't fall on the dog.

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  25. I have a speedy boston terrier, we don't get the chance to compete much (I'm a junior) and so far we've made course times, but we are still in novice. I don't understand the gate at all, and I see in pre-champs they are using it. It just seems messy. I don't think spread, broad or tire jumps are really all that important, its still a jump. But I do wish there was a teeter in NADAC!

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  26. And I haven't competed in NADAC in years, so all of this is now completely out of my experience. Hope you're having fun; I love it when nonstandard breeds (e.g., border collies, shelties) do agility.

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  27. Non standard breeds cannot make the elite times, bye bye Nadac, you were once great and how you have fallen!

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  28. I have only one thing to say regarding the absurd statements that you can't succeed in NADAC unless you have a border collie or sheltie: My husband has put Elite NADAC titles on two BASSET HOUNDS, and yes, it was done within the last two years.

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    1. Congrats on the titles with your Basset Hounds! I've seen only one ever competing in agility, and she was small and *very* fast, more like a corgi speed. It's good to know that it can be done.

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