Zorro's Breed Results Are In!

SUMMARY: Biggest part is as expected, but then --

... much unexpected!

My guesses were, in order: 1. Cattle Dog 2. Rat Terrier 3. Border Collie 4. Basenji.

And here's the big reveal:

• To the ACD, I say, well, duh!  
• Beagle: OK, has a non-ACD bark, I've always thought. 
• But Chihuahua?  One friend said, while guessing her own breeds, "Including  Chihuahua because around here these days *everything* probably has chihuahua."  
• And I expected terrier, but Boston Terrier?  I don't know enough about BT traits to say, "no way," or, "well, THAT explains it."
• German Shepherd Dog: I sometimes wondered whether those were Shepherd ears. Should've added to  my guesses.
• Supermutt: Additional breed ancestry so diluted that all they can do is make guesses. "We cannot be sure, given how little of their DNA has carried down to Zorro, but we thought you might like to know our best guess anyway!"
  • Smooth Fox Terrier
  • Shetland Sheepdog

So much for his original rescue posting as "Border Collie Mix"! Not a whit of that.

It also includes a list of physical traits. Here's the summary:

• Coat color: Gives a fairly broad range, but not incorrect so far--I'll have to wade thru the "but if the dog has xxxx gene, then..." material. It is correct that he is not merle.
• Coat qualities: Short or medium fur, straight not curly, sheds a lot seasonally.  Yep.
• Other:  "Likely to" have medium or long muzzle, normal-length tail, normal muscling. "Unlikely" to have hind dew claws or blue eyes.   Yep.
• Genetic diversity: Inbreeding 0%. Well, that's pretty interesting!

Relatives?!

They list 30 dogs whose DNA makes them "Close relatives: As related as human first cousins." They are ALL listed as ACD, while Zorro is Mixed Breed.  All those who have photos are clearly ACD as claimed. And although 2 are named Truckee and Cali, almost all of them live on the east coast except for an enclave in Nebraska. Intriguing.

As long as we're here--I also asked for the health screening. They tested for 181 things, and he's all clear except:
       Carrier for "Progressive Retinal Atrophy, prcd" and "Progressive rod-cone degeneration (PRCD Exon 1)"
No worries about him ever carrying that anywhere. I'll have to look  up what breeds commonly carry that. Later.

Now can hardly wait for Chip's to arrive, because I had no confident guesses at all!
And here they are!

What Kind Of Animals Are Chip And Zorro?

SUMMARY: My breed guesses before the DNA results arrive.

PART 2 of the Chip/Zorro DNA saga. Here's PART 1.

What is Zorro (aka Luke on occasion)?

See this previous post for lots of photos and observations and musings about Zorro's breed.

When I first saw him, there was something Basenji-like, and I have a photo in one of my books to prove it.

He was listed as a Border Collie mix. So I give some credence to that on the assumption that maybe someone who came up with that listing knew what the mother was. Maybe not: Maybe someone just guessed as I am doing.

Early on, I had already started thinking Australian Cattle Dog (aka Heeler) by appearance and personality (stubborn, smart, eager to DO stuff). I haven't seen any herding behavior, but then he hasn't been around anything that he could herd. (Unlike Boost, who clearly went into herding mode when other dogs were chasing frisbees, for example.)

See this previous post for another cattle dog photo comparison.

And I know that at least BCs and ACDs can be obsessive about things, including hunting rats (and lizards, and squirrels, and birds, and snakes...), but still there is something terrier about him. Like maybe a rat terrier. Like really maybe a rat terrier. (I can't find a full-body tricolor legal reference here, but here's a tricolor face from Wikipedia public domain.)

Zorro Breed Best Guess

1. Cattle Dog 2. Rat Terrier 3. Border Collie 4. Basenji

Finally, Zorro's results are in.

What is Chip?

See this previous post (scroll to the bottom half) for lots of photos and observations and musings about Chip.

I am seriously lacking in guesses.  I think that the previous owner's idea of a sighthound is decent. Like a Whippet? Fairly deep chest compared to waist, although not super differentiated. He is basically a couch potato who loves to run full out a little and then he's done. When Zorro is chasing a toy, Chip's full attention is on him and he'll often zoom in full speed to grab at his neck or shoulder. (Like all attributes, many breeds have them.) (Both from Wikipedia: Standing whippet, running whippet.)

But he has those naturally upright ears and the tail is certainly not sighthound.


He loves to dig. People have also suggested Malinois from his appearance, or German Shepherd Dog, but he just doesn't seem to have the working-dog working ethic.  He's smart enough, but not driven. (Except for biting at spray from the hose, or digging digging digging.)

I'm thinking more likely Lab or Golden Retriever mixed in there, mostly because they're common, and mostly because my first dog, Amber, didn't look horribly different from Chip and she was a known GSD/GR mix. I have no idea how to account for the digging!

Chip Breed Best Guess

1. Whippet or Greyhound 2. Golden Retriever 3. Labrador 4. German Shepherd (had to get the upright ears from somewhere! )

Finally:  Chip's results are in.

Are These Really Dogs?

SUMMARY: DNA testing, I just finally gave in.

PART 1 of the Chip/Zorro DNA saga. Here's PART 2.

My title, "are these really dogs?": Why? It's cuz of the guy near Santa Cruz who asked me 4 years back what kind of animal Chip was, and when I said "dog," he said something like, "maybe, but I doubt it."  Guess I'll find out now if I was so very wrong! Maybe an alien?

I thought about DNA tests for Jake and Remington. And for Tika. Decided not to, because (a) it's expensive, (b) it doesn't affect anything at all, (c) accuracy is iffy--people I know in the genetics world have said that they are a *fun* thing to do for mixed breeds, but don't count on them being correct. (To test accuracy, I'd need a mix whose parentage I knew for certain...  Amber qualified there, but the world in general didn't know anything about DNA back then.)

So, why now? Why these dogs? Dunno. Wanted to. So I have sent away for the packets. At some time in the future, I'll have their results.  Now is the time to place your bets on their breeds! (No actual money bet, no actual money given.)

Here's what I know about them:

• Chip: Original owner, who had him from 6 weeks, had no idea, but guessed part Whippet. (Also see my recent post about what he might be.)
• Zorro: Listed by rescue as Border Collie mix. Not sure where that info came from, as he went from original absent owner to shelter to rescue. (Also see my post about cattle dogs...)

And now for some photos, plus lots of adjectives to try to describe their personalities.

Zorro the high energy, no-fear, smart, eager to participate, desperate for activity, sleep-sprawling, dinnertime jumping into the air and food inhaling, over-the-top-wild learning, big-toy loving, no-fear, car/trip loving, huge-eared, happy, big-tongued, binkie-nursing, obsessive and very successful 18" hunter who always wants to be in the middle of whatever is going on, has earned several tricks titles, and loves doing contacts and tunnels

Big ears. Rapt attention. Always hoping for more.

Fully alert, tail and ears up. Note the one leg that's a different color.

From the back so you can see the white making a triangle on the back of his head. Looking for squirrels.

Fully alert, hoping for squirrels; tail curls almost all the way over.

Loves his big toys. Eager to play and chase toys.

Sprawls in his sleep, usually upside down, sometimes with both front legs raised.

Chased a squirrel in there. Won't give up until I haul him away by his collar.

Loves loves LOVES to be in the car. Open door is an invitation.

Huge tongue for a not-that-big dog.

Those ears!  (Note Chip's in comparison)

Side view of his left side.

When I come home, this is what I see: Him waiting with his Jolly Ball. Sometimes he'll stand there for 5 or 10 minutes while I do whatever I need to do.

Face. And ears.

Often plops himself down with back legs behind him.

Loves nursing on his binkies. Quiet, calm--I think he uses it to help calm himself because he  he can be so wired.

No fear! Soft crate is not safe for standing on, but he doesn't care  if it wiggles around and nearly dumps him.

Chip the worrying, thunder/noise fearing, gentle, snuggle-loving, smart but thoughtful and methodical learning, cautious, hole-digging, crate-loving, dinnertime patiently sitting and calmly eating, small-toy loving, hose-spray enthusiastic, very fast but only under his own initiative, car/trip fearing, talkative, small-tongued, sweet 20" boy who waits to see what's going on before making an effort to join in, loves doing tunnels by himself, and stresses out too easily for me to want to take him to more classes of any kind but he has learned several tricks

Chip is sometimes terrified of getting into the car. Other times he hops right in. No idea what the deal is.

He can run very very fast when he feels like it. 

Face. Black on his forehead and muzzle. Has always had some white there, too.

Alert and happy, with tail up; something must be happening right now.

When not immediately stimulated, he usually stands more like this, tail relaxed.

Loves the tunnel game! Hide and seek full speed, then blasts out like a missile to find another tunnel.

Loves to snuggle next to me in bed; this sitting on my lap, however,  is because there are fireworks outside and he's quite unhappy about that.

When happy, often rolls around on the bed or floor, grabbing anything that's near just for the joy of grabbing.

Little tiny tongue. Compare to Zorro's earlier.

Fully alert and eager! I don't often see him like this--

He lounges better than anyone, in anything available.

Another alert shot--this is about as high and curled as his tail goes.

Man, does he love to dig. I should show you my moonscape back yard sometime.

Chip LOVES to grab at spraying water. (Zorro heads off for safety when the hose comes out; not a fan, and I've never sprayed him that I can recall, so I don't know where either of these got these traits.

Snuggle boi.

He's very vocal. Talks or woofs about many things all day long. When happy and rolling around on bed or floor, he makes many happy talking noises.

I see him like this a lot-- a bit worried about what's going on but still hoping that something good might be happening.

I took him to a class on massaging/etc. your dog. He loved checking out all the other dogs and he really enjoyed the parts where I was doing hands-on with him. But near the end, when the mini teeter hit the floor and the whole building resounded, he was terrified and done.  So I think indoor training isn't appropriate for him...

Loves little toys! This is one of his 2 favorites.

Feels safe in his crate. Often goes in to get away from Zorro or simply to relax while Human Mom is doing whatev's Human Moms do.

SOOOOO what's your guess?

Jumpy the Cattle Dog vs Zorro

SUMMARY: Wow, what do you think? Maybe Zorro is an ACD!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gp6p-_Z_PrI

Jumpy photo:

Zorro photo:

I know, I know.  Jumpy has more  white on his head; zorro's white stops at his nose and just behind his ears from the back; Jumpy's coat is longer; Zorro has spots on only 1 leg instead of all.

Our Circus Dog class instructor pointed out that Zorro's level of energy, enthusiasm, and smarts as well as his looks reminds her of Jumpy.  However, watching the videos, MY energy, enthusiasm, and possibly smarts don't quite match his trainer's. 

Heh.

But it's nice to have a role model that Zorro can look up to.